Inside Chile's Business Culture & Maritime Industry with JP, CEO of CPT Towage | Nearshore Cafe Podcast

**Brian:** Welcome to the Nearshore Café podcast, home to the most interesting stories and people doing business in Latin America. Welcome, everyone, to another edition of the Nearshore Café podcast. I’m Brian Sampson, your host. This podcast is sponsored by Nearshore Direct. Go to nearshoredirect.com. With me today is a friend of mine, and more importantly, a business leader from Chile, Juan Pablo. Juan Pablo, or can I call you JP?

**JP:** Of course, Brian. How are you? Todo bien, my friend.

**Brian:** Todo bien. How are you?

**JP:** Great, great. We have a very beautiful day today. You’re here working at Nearshore. I love it. I love it.

**Brian:** Well, JP, you know, we’re lucky to have a business leader from Chile like yourself on the show. What we try to talk about in the show is business cultures, especially with a LATAM focus, work styles, personalities, stories. That’s always the great stuff. And you’ve got a really interesting story. We met in a global MBA program, and ironically, it was focused on Asia, but you and I were like the two guys focused on LATAM in the session. So, we’ll get to that, and we’ll get to your work experience in a moment. But I think it’s going to be good just to hear how it all started. Maybe tell us a little more about where you grew up, where you went to school, just kind of your upbringing and childhood.

**JP:** Sure. So, hi everyone. Well, my name is Juan Pablo. As Brian said, I was born and raised here in Santiago, Chile. Today, it has more or less 8 million people, so it’s similar to São Paulo or Buenos Aires in terms of sizes. I mean, it’s smaller, but it’s a very fast city. I went to school here first, and then to the university here as well, Universidad Católica, which is one of the best universities in Latin America. I studied Industrial Civil Engineering here. It used to be six years, so it’s quite a long time. You get to know math, physics, chemistry, and all these stupid things that we never use, but they make you think, and they teach you how to think and solve problems.

**JP:** Apart from that, I’m married. I have two kids, two girls, and we all live here in Santiago. It’s quite a nice city to live because in one hour, you can go to the beach, and in one hour, you can go skiing in the winter. So, we have a lot of mountains, as you can see in the background. And it’s a fun city to live. It’s not as vibrant as Buenos Aires; the nightlife is much more over there. But you know, we also enjoy life, and we have good wine and good salmon.

**Brian:** Yeah. Speaking of the wines, what kind of wine is Chile famous for?

**JP:** Well, we are famous for a lot of wines. We produce a lot of wines. We have probably one of the biggest wineries in the world. But do you know my favorite one? It’s Carménère. You know the Cabernet of the wine in France? And a French guy came to Chile, saw the grapes, and he said, “Okay, this is Carménère! This one, this is amazing!” And now we produce a lot of Carménère, which is my favorite one, because it’s not as acidic, it’s not as hard as a Cabernet, but it’s very famous here, and I really like it. So, if you come to Chile, try Carménère or buy some.

**Brian:** Yeah, absolutely. And then what type of food does that go best with in Chile? Does that go with fish or what?

**JP:** No, here, I mean, we are meat people. We are meat people. So, every weekend, we meet with friends and families, and we do barbecues. So, we’ve got very good meat. We’ve got a lot of American meat also from Argentina, Uruguay. So, we are very meat consumers. We produce a lot of meat as well. So, barbecue is what we do. But of course, because, you know, Chile is very long and thin, and we have a lot of sea, we have very good seafood. So, the red wine is for the meat, and the white wine is for the seafood. We have very good seafood, and I really enjoy eating seafood here. Cold water, so the seafood is very good.

**Brian:** Yeah. Yeah, I’ve had it; it’s excellent. It’s excellent. And, you know, speaking of barbecue, I’ve had the chance to go to JP’s home, and I remember you had the most incredible barbecue area I’ve maybe seen at a home. Could you maybe we’ll even show a picture on the video, but could you describe it a little bit, what it looks like? And also, you have this engineering background, so I’m sure you thought a lot about how to put it together.

**JP:** Yeah, sure. So, to be honest, it wasn’t my idea. So, I have seen a lot of barbecues, especially in Argentina and Uruguay. They have this different kind of barbecue. So, this is not gas; this is wood or charcoal, right? So, when you have a big barbecue, and you want to keep pushing fire, you don’t want the fire to kill your meat. So, you want to keep the fire outside from the meat. So, this barbecue is a grill, and then on the side, there’s a place where you put the wood or the coal, and then you keep moving it from the bottom to the grill in order to have a balanced fire and a balanced heat all the time.

**Brian:** Yeah, it was excellent. I think about it often because I just use the regular American grills, and the meat is never as good as it was when I was in Latin America. Yeah, I mean, Argentina, we would have *asado* quite a bit, where they would light the fire and then spend hours just perfecting the fire before the meat goes on. But often in the U.S., you know, we just light the fire, we throw the meat on, and it’s done in 10 minutes. But in LATAM, it’s a labor of love and hours getting just the right fire.

**JP:** Exactly. And also, you can do some tricks with the smoke, right? You have the fruit wood that will give a special taste through the smoke to the meat, which is also nice.

**Brian:** Yeah, a smoky taste. I also wanted to ask you, JP, as we talk about your growing up, you were a rugby guy, right? A rugby player?

**JP:** Yes, I used to play rugby. Well, rugby is not our first sport. So, I wanted to play soccer first, but I wasn’t too good at soccer. So, when I was 14, I started playing rugby here. Actually, I played very hard for seven, eight years. I actually went to a World Cup, Under-19 World Cup for Chile. I played six or seven years for the Chilean national team. I went to play in South Africa, to Europe, in Latin America. Well, it was a fun time, a tough time. We trained a lot, but we played a lot, almost every day. Sports, in the end, give you a good mentality for business and for life, right? I actually love that my kids like sports, too, because they know that if they want something, they need to work hard. If they work hard, they get a reward and they get good results. So, that’s why I try to convince them to do sports.

**Brian:** I think that’s great. Yeah, same here with my little kids; that’s what we’re trying to do. So, right after school, I sometimes I’m confused if I should call it LAN or LATAM Airways, because I think about the planes. But did you go right into that? Was that your first move after school?

**JP:** So, sorry, can you repeat the question?

**Brian:** Sure. So, JP, I think right after school, I know you had this long career with the airline. Tell us a little more about that. What kind of role did you have when you started? I think you moved later on into strategy, but maybe tell us more about your career there and the kinds of roles you had, and the work style and culture of the company. That’d be really interesting.

**JP:** Sure. Well, actually, after university, I went two years to an investment bank, to Deutsche Bank. Well, it was a short term, and then I decided that I wanted to work in something more real, you know? And since I love to travel, I’ve been traveling all my life. I had this opportunity at LATAM. LATAM is the biggest airline, used to be and is still the biggest airline in Latin America. And I got to LATAM and worked in commercial roles. So, they had this area called Route Economics, where I got in first, where you get to manage routes. For example, the route from Santiago to Los Angeles, or routes from Santiago to Miami or to New York. And you have to adjust the prices, talk with the travel agencies to sell them more because they have too many empty seats, or change the timetable to a more corporate timing, things like that. So, anything to make the route more profitable, work with the pilots or with the maintenance team in order to reduce the cost. And, to be honest, it was an amazing experience. It’s a company which had a lot of people from everywhere in Latin America. There are a lot of Argentinians, Brazilians, Peruvians, Colombians. There are people from everywhere. There are very good people, a lot of very well-educated and experienced people. So, it was really fun to work in this company. The business is very fun because you sell dreams, you sell flights to somewhere. And so, it was really nice, a nice experience. Also, the industry, the industry is really dynamic. So, one day you have a lot of demand, but the next day there is a volcano explosion, and you don’t have demand at all. So, you need to adjust the prices, adjust capacity, or move the flights, or move them somewhere else. So, it’s a very dynamic industry where everything impacts. The people that worked there were a lot of young people as well, so it was fun. So, you work hard, but you also party hard. So, on a Thursday night, everyone went to the bar, had some drinks, partied until 5:00 AM, and then the next day, everyone was hung over, but 9:00 AM, they were working and having fun again. So, yeah, it was a very good fun.

**Brian:** You mentioned something interesting. So, if I have it right, the headquarters was in Santiago, but you’re working with people from all over Latin America. Help me understand a little more about maybe the business culture of Chile and Santiago and what was similar or maybe what was different with some of the other countries that you were connecting with.

**JP:** No, I mean, I think every country in Latin America has its own culture. Yeah, I mean, there is a saying that says, for example, you can do the best business you can do is sell an Argentinian for the price he thinks it is and buy it for the price he’s actually worth. So, it’s funny because Argentinians are very good to sell. They have a very good personality. They’re very direct talking. While, for example, Peruvians or Colombians are more calm; they don’t have too much personality. It is difficult for them to say what they are feeling or what they want to do. Brazilians, on the other side, they are so relaxed. They always enjoy life to the max. And so, it’s difficult for them to sometimes they say they are going to do it, but they don’t do it. So, it’s something all the cultures are different, you know? And working in a company which has all these cultures helps you to actually understand the way you have to interact with these different people from different countries. Yeah.

**JP:** I don’t know if you know the story, but LAN was actually formed in Chile, and we actually merged with the Brazilian TAM, which was a different company. The two main, the two biggest Latin American airlines merged together, and they formed LATAM. And at that moment, well, we were based in Chile and managed every country besides Brazil. And since we merged with Brazil, I was moved to Brazil with my team. And then that’s why I know a lot about the Brazilian culture. So, before getting into Brazil, we had some classes on culture, we had some Portuguese classes, and a lot of cultural immersion in order to understand these differences between Brazilians and Chileans in order to work better.

**Brian:** And you were in São Paulo, was that right?

**JP:** Yes, I lived two and a half years in São Paulo. It’s a very interesting city. Life is like New York, right? It’s full of people, full of traffic. People are so nice. People are so happy. I mean, they can spend six hours in a traffic jam, but everything is good. They don’t care. They give you the way. And yeah, it’s so much things to do at night, so much places to go, have dinner or lunch. So, it’s an incredible city. It’s not very beautiful, to be honest, from my point of view, but it’s an incredible city to do anything you want.

**Brian:** Yeah. What was your favorite type of thing to eat when you were there?

**JP:** So, they have this Pão de Queijo, which is filled with cheese. Every meeting that you go, they have this cheese bread on the table, and you really like you eat one, then you eat another one, then you eat another one, 30 of them living there.

**Brian:** And then after your time there, did you return back to Santiago?

**JP:** Yes. So, at the beginning, they wanted to understand more, we wanted to understand more the business in Brazil, the difference between Latin America and Brazil. And they separated the business into the international, which was managed in São Paulo, and the domestic, which was managed in Chile. But, to be honest, the cost was much higher, and the main shareholders were based in Chile. So, two and a half years, after the World Cup, they decided to bring it back to Chile where it’s still here. So, all of LATAM is managed now from Chile. So, I came back. I worked in the alliances team, which we were negotiating business between LATAM and American Airlines and Iberia and British Airways with LATAM at that moment. So, I worked in that for a few years, and then I worked in the LATAM Pass, which is the frequent flyer program. It’s the most profitable part of the airline industry, which is not very profitable. So, this is the one that makes the profit, which is a lot of fun. I mean, I sold miles to banks, so the credit cards defined the financial aspects. It was a lot of fun. I spent almost two years there, and I was having a lot of fun, to be honest.

**Brian:** Yeah. Were you in that role when you decided to do the MBA program?

**JP:** I was actually in the alliances team, the JV between American Airlines and LATAM, and between Iberia and British Airways with LATAM at that moment.

**Brian:** Yeah. Now, obviously, you were in Santiago working for a Latin American airline, and then you decided to go to an international Asia Business School. Tell us more about that decision and your experiences doing that.

**JP:** Yeah, so at the beginning, I knew that I wanted to do an MBA. So, I was not sure if I… well, when I had this opportunity to move to Brazil, I was like, “Okay, so I’m going to wait for the MBA. I’m going to have this opportunity to live abroad in Brazil.” And when I finished that, when I came back, I was too old to make the traditional MBA, the normal MBA. And I didn’t want to be the oldest guy. So, I looked at the Executive MBA, and I took a look at the rankings. So, I looked at the first one, the second one, the third one. Some of them were… I mean, the structure was not very comfortable for me. Also, let’s say it was every Friday in New York for 15 months. The second one was in Miami; it was a similar structure. And I found this MBA which we took together, which was a two-week program in different places in the world. So, for me, it was a good fit. I could still work. I could travel very cheap because I was working in LATAM. And then, in the ranking, it was a good MBA. I mean, it has UCLA and NUS in the background. So, I decided to take it, and I think it was a great experience, a great goal. I mean, I made a good decision because I really enjoyed it.

**Brian:** Yeah, yeah, it was really fun having you in the program. I think you brought a lot of fun to the program. When you graduated, how did that change what you wanted to do?

**JP:** Well, actually, the MBA gave me a pause in my career to start thinking. I started thinking on what I wanted to do, what I wanted not just now, but in 10 years’ time or 15 years’ time. And well, I looked at my career from a different point of view. I looked at my experience in the past and what I wanted to do in the future. And it was a great time to think, to learn, and to look at my life, my business life, from a different point of view, to be honest. So, I appreciate that time a lot. I enjoyed knowing people from very different backgrounds, from very different cultures. I mean, here in Chile, you know, we are very far from everywhere. So, you don’t get too many people from Japan, you don’t get too many people from India, you don’t get too many people from China. So, in the end, knowing these cultures, knowing these different kinds of people, I think helped me a lot to understand more about what this world is today, I mean, how this world is today, which is much more global and dynamic, more diverse. You can be working from Hawaii or you can be working from China and being in the same meeting.

**Brian:** And exactly how you could be in the same room, right?

**JP:** Yeah, yeah.

**Brian:** Same, yeah, same experience for me. That’s great. For me, too, it was my one and only time I’ve been to India. For listeners, the program, we went to Singapore twice, we went to Shanghai, Bangalore, and then Delhi. I’d love to especially hone in on Shanghai, Delhi, and Bangalore and your perspective, from growing up in Latin America, your perspective on that region and maybe how the work styles might be similar or they might be different.

**JP:** Thank you. It was good fun. We also had fun; we went to see some very nice companies or industries. So, it was a very good program. Actually, I recommend everyone who is not sure of studying or not. I mean, having this time off, or this time to think outside the box, think outside from your normal life, I think actually helps you understand a lot of things.

**Brian:** Yeah. What did you think about India and China and, especially coming out of the transportation world, what was your take on them?

**JP:** Well, so when you say about China and India, probably the only similar thing they have is they each have more than one billion people. Both countries. But they are so different, right? In China, you see the people, it’s so organized. Everything works very fine. People are fighting to get into the Metro or subway. And people are very regulated in what they can do, what they can’t. They are very respectful as well on the rules. They have so many restrictions, you can’t use WhatsApp or you can’t use Facebook. So, it’s incredible how Chinese people actually live, how they actually work. I mean, it’s amazing the culture, how much discipline they have. And on the other side, you have India, which is, oh, it’s chaos, right? When you get there, I don’t know, sometimes you want to run off and get out as soon as possible because it’s so dirty. People are burning rubbish in the streets, or they are seeing cows in the streets. And people don’t really respect, don’t really, I don’t know, have any discipline or any working culture. I mean, some of them, right? But they seem happier than the Chinese. I don’t know. It’s certainly a different version of culture, of discipline, happiness, and so much is happening to your mind, and you try to get the best part of each and try to see what is good for you. So, the experience is amazing with these two countries, actually.

**Brian:** That’s a really interesting comment about the happiness because I often, I agree with you on the chaos, and but I often don’t give enough credit to just the peacefulness and the happiness of the culture there, you know?

**JP:** And it’s the same here in Latin America. I mean, Chileans, they are more direct. They get angry when things don’t work. So, the bus is not on time, or it’s not working, they complain, and they act angry. In Brazil, for example, they say, “I don’t care, dude. Wait for the other one.” And they are used to this kind of life, and they complain less. I think that’s part of the culture. But you understand when you live there that probably people sometimes are happier in these kinds of countries, but they’re used to living with what they have, right?

**Brian:** That’s right. That’s right. Exactly what they have. Well, speaking of transportation, I had the chance to ride the Metro, the subway in Santiago, and it was incredible. It was one of the nicest lines, and this is probably over 10 years ago that I did it. I was like a backpacker going to hostels and stuff. And it reminded me of Singapore. It was just so well-built, and I don’t know if people realize that. But, yeah, kudos to the engineers in Chile.

**JP:** Yeah, something that is working well. I mean, it’s not too big. We need more lines. It’s getting crowded. But yeah, it’s something that we should be proud of. It’s a nice way of transport.

**Brian:** Yeah. And on the other hand, something that I experienced in Chile, again, on my backpacker trip, was something I had never seen before: the Colectivo. The fixed-route taxis.

**JP:** Yes, it was kind of like Uber before Uber, I guess. They have these signs on the top of their cars, right? For people. And they have this routing they do every day, every time. And well, they are usually in some subway stations. From those subway stations, they have these routes, and you can pick it up. I used it a lot when I was young because it was a little bit more expensive than a bus, but much more comfortable and fast. So, actually, it was quite nice. I thought at the beginning that Uber was going to kill them and with Uber Pool, but I don’t think they got the authorization from the government to operate it because they would kill this industry.

**Brian:** Yeah, that’s a good point. Uber Pool before Uber Pool, right? And I remember I took it from like a subway station. It worked great, from a subway station, like it must have been like 50 kilometers out to the river so I could do a rafting trip. And I was like, you know, just hoping that the guy who told me like, “Don’t worry, you’ll catch a Colectivo around here,” and “Look for this thing on the top of the car,” and I just, “Okay, I guess I’ll trust you.” But it showed up, and it was really affordable. I think it was about the equivalent of like a dollar to go 50 kilometers. And it was, it was incredible.

**JP:** Yeah, it’s nice. It’s a nice way of moving.

**Brian:** Yeah, yeah. I wanted to just ask you a little more about Chile overall. You know, we know that there are some nuances around it, but I think I read there are a lot of great things for doing business there. You know, there are hundreds of thousands of engineers. I think the IP protection laws are the best in all of Latin America. I don’t know if you have any, because you’re such a global guy, and you’ve seen all these different countries and nuances, if you could comment on things like that.

**JP:** I would say Chile is the most European or developed country in Latin America. And this is because of the infrastructure, the government, and probably the most important one is that it’s the least corrupt country. So, here, for example, you cannot, I don’t know, pay something to a policeman if they stop you in the street, which sometimes you can do in some countries in Latin America. So, that gives you a spotlight on how the institutions actually work. So, I would say that the biggest difference between Chile and the other countries in Latin America are infrastructure. This is a less corrupt country, and also that the institutions work better than in other countries. So, that actually has helped the industries to become better than our neighbor countries. And there are a lot of big companies in Chile which are actually doing business in Peru, they are doing business in Colombia, or they’re doing business in Mexico. Most of the best companies in Chile are actually based, or they actually have operations, in different countries in Latin America. Plus that, if you compare it to Europe or to the U.S., there’s still a big education gap, and that’s where we need to focus, right? In Chile, because there is a big disparity of education and wages between the lowest part of the company and the upper part of the company. But what actually makes the difference between Chile and the other countries is the stability of economy and the way the institutions work. I mean, they work.

**Brian:** Yeah, yeah, I couldn’t agree more. When I’ve done business in other countries in LATAM, it’s very, how you say, ambiguous. Like, you don’t really know if your application will be approved, or the banking, or the infrastructure, you just like, pray, right?

**JP:** You don’t know your tax structure. I mean, it’s so complicated that the structure that you will have as a company if you’re in one region or a different region, if your product is moving from one region to another region, I mean, it’s impossible to understand how much tax you’re going to pay. I mean, it’s fair because it’s equal to everyone, but anyway, it’s so difficult to understand. Well, you actually don’t have those things here. Here, the rules are more clear, and that makes it easier to do business.

**Brian:** I think so. I think so, too. Well, speaking of doing business, tell us more about what you’re doing today and the company.

**JP:** Sure. Well, today, I’m the CEO of CPT Towage, which is an operator. So, I don’t know if you’re familiar with tugs. So, tugboats are a kind of boats, big boats with a very powerful engine. And what they do is they help big ships to park in the ports. A big ship of gas or a big ship of containers that came to a port, they are not made to park in the port. So, you need these tugboats to push it to the dock.

**Brian:** Oh, interesting. Okay, maybe like tugboats and pilots. Yeah.

**JP:** Okay. So, we currently operate 52 tugboats. We operate in Argentina, Chile, Peru, Ecuador, Panama, and Mexico. Each country has its own rules, its own interests, or businesses. But it’s a fun industry. It’s very dynamic, it’s very intense, it’s very competitive, but it’s a fun industry, to be honest.

**Brian:** Yeah. What do you what do you see for the industry over the next couple years? Any trends or predictions?

**JP:** Sure. So, in the future, there’s quite a few things going on, right? First, efficiency. So, you know, you see the difference in the culture. So, for example, in Argentina, we use seven crew to operate one tugboat at a time, right? Seven crew. In Peru, we use four, or in Chile, we use five. So, these kinds of things when you compare to Singapore, for example, there is sometimes operated with two or three. So, it is something that we need to move on in the industry. We need to be more efficient. Be more efficient in terms of labor. It’s something that, of course, is going to be in the future of this industry. Autonomous operations also. So, there are some studies and some projects there to have autonomous operations. There are a lot of things about fuel consumption. So, we are looking to have more efficient regulations, less emissions. And some of our clients are requesting these kinds of efficiencies, and we also want it for the environment and for the cost, right? The fuel, you know, it’s an important part of the cost structure. And also, there is a lot of consolidation going on in the industry. So, we recently announced an acquisition of a share of our company in Panama from PSA Singapore. So, we actually are getting some consolidation. The industry is consolidating because once you have these clients, you can have this regional contract; you can attend the clients in all the region. And that’s something that is also going on in the industry. As I mentioned, it’s a fun industry, it’s very dynamic. Well, I’m trying to move on on these trends.

**Brian:** Yeah. And JP, I want to make sure our audience knows where to find you and your company. What’s the website or the best way to find CPT?

**JP:** Sure. Our website is CPTTowage.com. There, you can find our operations. We do a lot of towage as well, maritime works. And we’re growing.

**Brian:** Excellent. Great. And I just have two more questions for you, JP. So, the first is, I think Chile is an amazing country with great people, but there’s nothing like somebody who knows it like you. If for those who might be listening that are considering, maybe they’re from the States and they’re considering doing business in Chile or opening up an office or something, what’s your best advice for them so they can be successful?

**JP:** The best advice for an American or an overseas company trying to do business in Chile is to look a lot at the size of the business. You know, Chile is a very small country, but the per capita GDP is quite high. So, it’s actually a very nice country as a trial for expanding to Latin America. So, I would say to any company which is looking to come to Latin America, versus Argentina or Uruguay, to start with Chile, it would be a good example to start. So, I will recommend them to make a trial here in Chile to launch their products or to launch their services here. And from here, there is a very good platform to expand to other countries in Latin America. Good services. So, it will be easy for you to start a business here.

**Brian:** Yeah, as you describe that, it makes me think a lot about how U.S. companies use Singapore to get into Asia. You know, they have this safe, stable, good infrastructure, good GDP, strong services, and then they can expand into the rest of Asia. Use Chile the same way to expand in the rest of Latin America.

**JP:** Well, usually companies do that, right? They do have Chile as a hub for Spanish-speaking countries. Or Brazil is a different world. So, probably most of the companies actually base in Brazil and outside Brazil. So, they have both things. But you know, Brazil is a huge, it’s a huge market, but it’s very difficult to do business there. You do business, you make a lot of money, but it’s very difficult. There are a lot of companies that actually have problems.

**Brian:** It’s really been a blast having you here on the podcast. So fun hearing about Chile and your experience and working as the CEO of CPT. I want to give another thanks to our sponsor, that’s Nearshore Direct. Go to nearshoredirect.com. JP, thanks again for your time.

**JP:** Thank you very much, Brian. Have a great time. We’re happy to speak to you anytime. Thank you for having me.

**Brian:** Our pleasure. All right, everyone, we’ll see you next time. Thank you.

**Brian:** Thanks for joining us at the Nearshore Café podcast. Tune in next week for a new episode featuring another special guest.