Season 2 Is Here: LatAm Business, Culture & Big Guests | The Nearshore Cafe

Brian: Welcome to the Nearshore Cafe podcast, home to the most interesting stories and people doing business in Latin America. Welcome, everyone, to another episode of the Nearshore Cafe podcast. I’m Brian Samson, your host, an entrepreneur who’s been working in Latin America for the last eight years. Before we get into our guest today, I want to give a thanks to our sponsor, Plug Technologies, Plug.tech. Plug is a great way to find technical talent all over Latin America. Speaking of finding talent, if you are interested in recruiting talent, ecosystem RPO, this podcast is for you. Today, we have Max Grinkle, someone that I’ve personally known for years, a recruiting leader for decades across Latin America. Max, so great to have you on the show today.

Max: Thank you, Brian. It’s great to be here. Good.

Brian: Max, for those that don’t know you, you’re an Argentine, you’re from Argentina, and part of this show is bringing life to these places, especially for our listeners that have never had a chance to travel there. What should people know about Argentina? I know there’s a lot, there’s a lot there, but when people ask you, they meet you, they find out you’re from Argentina and they’re like, “Oh, what’s that like?” What, what, what should they know?

Max: Yeah, I think right now, the first thing people will say is, “Oh, Messi!” Messi is the first thing that comes to mind, yeah, these days. Argentina is a pretty vast country with a lot of history and, you know, very deep culture. It’s the southernmost country in South America for those who are interested in geography. It’s right at the bottom of the continent, so, you know, next to Antarctica. But in terms of, like, culture, some things that define us, I would say, are great food, architecture, music, and, you know, great nightlife. A lot of people who’ve been to, you know, the capital city of Argentina, which is Buenos Aires, compare it to some cities in Europe as well because we’ve got a lot of European tradition. We had waves of immigrants, you know, in mid-century, come over to Argentina to settle, you know, running away from the war. So we have a lot of those traditions as well. So I would say it’s like a mix of traditions. You’ve got the native piece of it, the, you know, Native Americans, and mixed with European tradition. So you get bits and pieces in everything around here. But I’m from Buenos Aires, so, you know, I come from all of that, and I’ve inherited a lot of that. My family was Polish, but I also have a Spanish side to it. So, you know, we eat a lot of great food here, and it’s, you know, it’s really fun, really fun to come down. People usually, you know, Americans and Europeans who come down to Buenos Aires and, you know, all of Argentina, I would say, have a lot of fun. You’ve got a lot of things to do down here, that’s what I can say.

Brian: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You mentioned Messi. Obviously, the World Cup, where were you during the World Cup, and how did you celebrate it?

Max: Oh, that was nerve-wracking. I was actually in Buenos Aires. We had been looking forward to this for a long, long time. I mean, we have a long tradition of soccer, and we’ve been, and we played a lot of finals, and we didn’t win for, you know, for many, many years. So this has been the first, the first final we actually won in, like, over 20 years. So it was a big deal. Soccer is the main sport down here in Argentina. So, obviously, we’ve got a big tradition there. It was nerve-wracking for me. I remember, I think when we won, about, I don’t know, three, three or four million people went out in the street to celebrate. It was, it was crazy. I’m not much of a, you know, I’m not a big fan of being in the crowd, but it was crazy. It was like a big countrywide celebration, you know, it was, it was, it was amazing. Yeah, it was fun.

Brian: Yeah, maybe for the pod, we’ll get a drone shot of that. That was the big Avenue, 9 de Julio, right, that everyone congregated on?

Max: Yeah, for sure. So that was, that was crowded. People just ran to the streets en masse, and it was just impossible to get by in cars. You couldn’t, you could not get to, you know, where the city center is, which is the Obelisco. I’m sure everyone knows that picture in Buenos Aires. It was impossible to get there, to even get there, because of how many people were there. So, actually, about, I would say, a fifth of the whole country was, went out. They were trying to count them. For some reason, that’s the number they came up with, but it wasn’t, yeah, it wasn’t, it was insane.

Brian: Yeah, yeah. Max, I want to get into some of your professional experience for a minute. So, a couple things that the audience knows right away is, wow, your English is just like speaking to somebody in Nebraska or Chicago or L.A., which I’m sure has impacted your access to opportunities. Can you first talk about that? How you acquired English, and especially US-style English. US-style English, I should probably say that.

Max: Sure. So, I learned English in school, and then I studied English in university as well for a few years. So it’s obviously not my second language. My first language is Spanish, as you know. I studied for many, many years, and then that led me to get my first job, which actually was a call center. So I started in sales and call center. It was weird because I made this transition from British accent to American accent because, you know, I learned the British accent first, but, obviously, at work, American accent is what you use most frequently. And so, but that was back 16 years ago. And then I transitioned over to recruiting, and I never stopped working with American clients, which is what made me sound as I sound today. It’s like everyday practice, and that was, that’s what made me get, has allowed me to get these opportunities, and because of, you know, the fact that I speak the language, you know.

Brian: Can you dive in a little more for those that aren’t familiar, just how the educational system is maybe set up in Argentina, you know, from primary and secondary, high school, and college? How English is part of the curriculum? Can you talk more about that?

Max: Yeah, that, that’s a correct question. So, English was introduced to the curriculum about 30 or 40 years ago. Most schools teach it as a second language, and it’s mandatory for the most part today, like, by law, even public schools. So it’s a little different here. Public schools are obviously run by the government. Private schools are those are the ones where English is typically bilingual. I didn’t get to go to a bilingual school, but it was quite intense. So we had, you know, several hours during the week. I then also went to private classes. But, yeah, so it’s mandatory now for sure, and it’s been around in education for a long time. So I would say, you know, probably about 60 to 70 or more percent of the population now, of people, you know, 30 plus years, speak the language. And a lot of us work for multinational companies as well, which, you know, is why the language has become another tool to get access to jobs, you know. So, yeah.

Brian: One, one quote that I heard years ago that that really resonated with me, because everyone thinks about technical skills, like if I learn software development or UX design or recruiting, that’s going to get me a raise. But I think the quote was actually, the biggest way to jump your compensation was to get better at English. Can you talk about that, with maybe the mentality of Argentines, because it’s also a country that exports a lot of services? It’s quite common, as you mentioned, to work with the States, and like the mindsets, the motivations, the incentives for those to really acquire that American-style fluency.

Max: Yeah, for sure. But I think it comes down to the fact that we look up to European countries a lot. I mean, and because we have this European tradition as well, and in history, is that we always look up to either America or Europe. And, you know, we feel a strong connection even with their culture, you know. And we follow all things pop culture in America, watch, you know, movies and series. And, yeah, and so, and it’s, and the language just, the language just comes with it, you know. Yeah, yeah, it’s true that being able to speak the language opens a lot of doors. Like I said, I started my career in a call center just because I spoke English. That’s all, that’s all I came with. And then just going into recruiting, which I just got lucky. But what got me, what got my foot in the door was the fact that I spoke the language, yeah.

Brian: Starting with your recruiting career, can you talk a little about that journey, like how you broke into it, some of the early positions that you were working on, and whether they were domestic or for international roles?

Max: Yeah, I’m laughing to myself because there was no, there was no ramp-up, there was no introduction. It was me sitting next to a guy who was doing it before and trying to learn the ropes. My first project ever was drilling engineers and field engineers for this huge oil and gas company called Saudi Aramco, where they had plans down in Canada. And so I had zero idea of how to even look for that kind of people. So, yeah, there was, there was no introduction whatsoever. It was learn on the job. And then we had, I remember, just the first day, work, an introduction to Boolean searches and what the tool that we would continue to use to this day, LinkedIn, and so forth. But, yeah, right after that, I started recruiting for technical positions, and it was all US-based. So, software engineers, network engineers, back then, you know, administrators, and technologies that no longer exist today. It was all on-premise solutions. And, you know, cloud computing didn’t exist back then. So this was back 15 years ago. AI and IoT was not a thing. All the things that we hear about every single day were not a thing. But it was, it was still technology, and that’s what I continue to do to this day, yeah.

Brian: Now, Max, you’ve spent a portion of your career in RPO, Recruitment Process Outsourcing, which is a way that companies accelerate the recruiting. They find sourcers, recruiters, as you mentioned, on-premise. But a lot of RPO is remote. When did you first start to see this RPO world take off a little bit in Latin America, and especially Argentina?

Max: So I started in RPO back in 2006, and that was not really a thing back then. It was very early, more of a pilot program, even in some cases. But a lot of the people who are now in leadership positions started back then at that, at that time. Most of the recruiting was done either in-house or, you know, through agencies, but most of the work was mainly local. It was all on-site type work. So this was more of a pilot, I would say. Well, probably after 2010, 2015 is when it started to go big, and it actually became a thing. And then it blew up after COVID, actually, which is funny because, you know, at the beginning of COVID, we would have expected otherwise and started to shut down. And then they realized, “Oh, there’s actually a world out there, and we don’t need for people to come to the office.” Yeah. And there’s life outside of the US border. So they started to find a lot of these, you know, companies started to find a lot of these providers, and that’s when it blew up, actually. So COVID did this thing for us, which is opening, you know, borders and doors and making communication. I think a lot of the tools that we currently use for communicating also enabled us to have this, you know, real-time communication, which five years back, it wasn’t even possible, to be honest. It was all via email. I remember we did not have a lot of tools we have today as well for sourcing and recruiting. So it was, it was very hard for us to do what we do today. So, yeah. All of that, good things and bad things, crisis just got us to the point where we’re now, where, you know, Argentina and some other countries in Latin America are on the map.

Brian: Yeah, that’s, that’s an interesting commentary. More than really any immigration policy, COVID opened at least virtual borders.

Max: Yeah, that’s right. That’s right. Yeah.

Brian: Yeah. So back to the RPO landscape. And, you know, we can mention some companies like Pierpoint, you know, has been around forever. And what did that look like? And I know you said 2015 is when things started to take shape, 2021 was the acceleration. But if you were a great English-speaking recruiter in Argentina in 2015, what were your options back then?

Max: Corporate recruiting has always been there. It’s just, I think for some countries, again, things that seem to be negative turn out to be something positive, which is, in our case, inflation, right? So, having an economy like ours where costs go up all the time and the local exchange is not solid, so if there’s a lot of inflation, it makes it very appealing for people in general to export services and make a living in US dollars. And so this goes for not just recruiting. Obviously, technology is another area where people make really good living out of by exporting services to the US. So, some things make it favorable, some things like those make it favorable for people in Latin America to export services.

Brian: Yeah, you mentioned the Saudi company, oil and gas, like a lot of traditional industries. It’s funny, we give tech a lot of credit for being innovative, but, yeah, it was really the kind of the normal big industries that were first to market with RPO, international RPO, Latin America recruiters, Argentina recruiters. When did tech really start storming through and this need for technical recruiters in Latin America to work on US roles?

Max: Yeah, that’s a little bit different because when I started, it was all US for the US. So you were recruited in the US, or, well, in that case, it was Canada, but for Canada, right? What we exported was the recruiting service itself, but we didn’t recruit out of Latin America. I think the BP, or exporting services from Latin America to the US, and specifically technology, engineering, I think it started a little later again. And so around the time where, again, 2015, maybe a little earlier, but towards, you know, the second half of the 2010s, is where it actually started to grow to the point where local companies are having a big challenge in recruiting local engineers to work, to work locally. A lot of these engineers are now, you know, only interested in working with international assignments. So the same change we saw, in the same development we saw in recruiting, happened in tech as well. So same, same situation, you know. You’ve got a vast pool of very well-qualified individuals who also speak the language. And I’m not just talking about Argentina. This goes for many locations in Latin America, you know, Mexico, Brazil, Costa Rica, a lot of these other countries as well. They have a vast pool of candidates that do the same thing. But I would say, you know, 2013, ’14, ’15, that’s when it, it became, even to the point where it’s a commodity today. And people, that’s what they want to do. There’s no other options. You speak English, you know, something, you’ve got a skill, you’ve got a technical skill, then you’ll, you’ll work for a US or international company, yeah.

Brian: Yeah, yeah. If you were to think back to the 2013, 2014, 2015, kind of like that second phase of RPO, was it, was it pretty common? Like, were there a lot of recruiters doing this? I think Korn Ferry and IBM might have already been there. Like, how big was the market then, and how big was it in 2021 in terms of recruiters in Latin America servicing the US?

Max: Yeah, still, I would say still to that point, early those years, a lot of recruiters were sort of hesitant to make the jump, and they would, they preferred to stay in their corporate job, safe, get an okay salary, yeah, but with medical benefits, you know. And so the, so the market wasn’t that big back then. And it was weird because people were actually, what was happening back at the time is that big companies such as IBM, like you mentioned, or Microsoft, all the big players, you know, they had a team internally. That’s how I started. So I was at IBM, and I was at Sip, and I was at Microsoft. So all these companies already had a pool, a group of recruiters who would recruit for the US, or who would source for the US, but they would do it in-house, right? So you were basically doing the same service just within the framework and the structure provided by these large companies. So in your mind, you, you weren’t afraid of losing your job. Well, we later found out that it wasn’t as safe as, as we thought. And, you know, and people started to realize, “Well, I could do the same thing and do it, you know, maybe in a smaller company, but get paid in US dollars, or do it directly with the client who’s already based in the US and get paid in US dollars.” And so companies like Pierpoint, like you mentioned, they started to open those spaces where, and allowed people to get into these, these projects. And then it started growing from there. And now, you know, there were, I think just also a matter of seniority that recruiters started to gain, which allowed them to be in front of projects and then and provide, you know, this kind of stability to projects. So it stopped becoming a pilot program, and companies realized, “Oh, this actually works.” And, you know, it’s become a case of success. And so more companies, smaller and larger, started to open up and just grow from there. And so recruiters just realized, “I mean, we could do the same as I could do the same as I’m doing now, but make four times as much as I’m making.” So, you know, I know, you know, a lot of people got to buy houses, you know, and cars, things, and save a lot of money, which wasn’t really possible before. So it, it really opened a lot of doors. And I think recruiters in general started to realize, “Well, I can actually make a living out of this, and I don’t have to risk anything.” You know, I can make really good money, and I don’t depend on huge companies, medical plans, or whatever, you know, that just did not become something that you wanted to have. You would rather make a much better, and be safe, than just depend on this huge corporation’s benefits or whatever, yeah.

Brian: Yeah, yeah. And, you know, many, many know Max and I from Bally Staffing. You know, I was the founder, Max was my partner there, the VP of Recruiting. So Max covered a lot of ground across a lot of different technical clients. Can you talk about the structure a little bit, like sourcers versus recruiters, and kind of how you thought about leveling, like when someone was ready to make the jump?

Max: Yeah. So what was challenging for us, and I think for a lot of these RPOs, was building fast and scaling. Yeah. So this was back, you know, between 2015, 2020 or so, where the need, the demand for RPO started to grow. And at one point, we ran out of people to hire from the market. It was just, so we started to look into ways to make this business scalable. And so that’s how we came up with this system where we had a two-layer team with sourcers, who would basically just source people, find people from the internet. And then recruiters, who would be the face of the organization, those who would interview candidates, and also many times be in front of clients, who would speak, you know, the language fluently, and, you know, be able to, to run projects basically. And so that’s, that’s how we, we thought about it. So, becoming a sourcer was like the first step into recruiting, as it was for a lot of people in the business, as it was for me back in, you know, 2006. That’s how I learned the ropes. You’ve got to be a good sourcer to be a good recruiter, in my eyes, I think so. And that’s how we, that’s how we got people to start. A lot of these folks didn’t have zero idea of what Boolean search was and how to, how to source. So we created this system where we would ramp them up and get them to learn the tools, and take the first steps into recruiting, and understand the logic of, of sourcing. And when we found out, when we discovered that, you know, they, they also had an interest for more, and they, they had this, you know, good interface and good communication skills, then the next step was becoming a recruiter. And a lot of these folks just made a career out of this, which is something that makes me super, super proud, you know. Yeah.

Brian: Yeah, I’ll say, Max, that, the communication level at the beginning, I was, I was as skeptical as anybody else. Yeah, our recruiters would be on call with C-suite, hiring managers, CEOs, CTOs, directors of engineering. And I would attend early on, kind of just like, “When do I, when should I step in? When should I step in? Are they going to say something cringeworthy?” And it never happened. Yeah, it never happened. Like, in many cases, they were better than I was at taking requirements, building relationships, putting hiring managers at ease. And I’m curious if there’s any, you know, besides all the recruiting training, if maybe there’s anything like inherent about, say, the Argentine culture that makes relationship building and perseverance, you know, just better than, than most?

Max: Yeah, that’s a, that’s a good question. It’s in our DNA, I would say. We are, you know, we’re born with this capacity to navigate tough waters, and we’re resilient, and we’re not afraid to speak up. I think that comes with our Italian roots of being loud and, you know, not afraid of saying things. But also, there’s a lot of smarts in that, and there’s a lot of street smarts with that, with that culture. Also, you know, like I said, having that and looking up to the European or American culture as well, copying accents, copying ways of saying things, and copying, trying to mimic the discourse, I think that has a benefit to it as well. So there’s a lot of, I know a lot of our clients were struggling with, you know, recruiting partners who were from Asia, for instance. And they were relieved to hear folks who were, like, nearshore, or outside of, you know, Latin America, that they could speak to and communicate without any, any cultural or communication barriers. But, yeah, I mean, it’s inherent to the fact that we are in these countries where, you know, you always have to be, to find ways to survive, and, you know, to be creative, and to be, to think outside of the box. So all those things come with being from Latin America, and I think Argentina specifically, yeah.

Brian: And going back to your earlier point, when the market was almost tapped out, like anybody who was a recruiter had a job with some RPO servicing the US, and you, along with some others, had a great idea to build a Recruiter Academy. Can you talk about both the curriculum that you were teaching, in addition to maybe how some of the clients shaped that curriculum, like the needs of the clients?

Max: Yeah, yeah, that’s a, that’s a good question. So the curriculum, so it was this idea of a training academy for recruiters. It was a two-week program. We hired people out of, you know, customer service roles, basically, or sales positions, which I think are very relatable to what we do as recruiters. You know, this, this part which is sourcing and, you know, finding candidates. But there’s also a very important piece of it, which is selling and offering positions to, to candidates, right? And the interface with, with the, with the client, which is what we were talking about before. And so we decided to go for people with, with, you know, customer service and sales backgrounds. So the curriculum was more geared towards the technology, which is what we recruited for most of the time. And so we explained, and the different components of technology on a very high level, which, which each concept was, to give them an idea of different profiles that they could find. And we were particularly, you know, focused in startup companies as well. And so what we also made a lot of focus was for them to be able to differentiate what a startup company was versus a corporate company was, which were, you know, the websites were, they could find databases of companies that would match the same, like, requirements, and also where to find candidates, best recruiting practices, which was like general stuff around all things recruiting. And, and so we, we tried to cover, like, the basics of Boolean search, of course, and, you know, the tools that we would use, LinkedIn as the Bible, you know, all those things were in the curriculum. But as well, on top of that, we, we wanted to emphasize and focus on stuff that were relevant to Bally at the time, which was, you know, startup and technology. And so we added that extra layer, which was successful, actually. We had one or two people come out of that experience who, you know, remained for quite a long time and helped with, with our project. So that was definitely a successful way to add people to recruit, which had worked for me and many other people back in the day. And that’s how a lot of people started in this business, which just made it a little easier for folks without the recruiting experience to get, get a foot in the door, yeah.

Brian: I also wanted to ask you, as you maybe talk to other recruiters that are looking to launch agencies in the US, and they listen to this podcast, they’re like, “Hmm, you know, maybe I could get some leverage or recruiting support out of Latin America.” What sort of advice would you give those agency owners in the US if they were thinking about doing that for their best success?

Max: Same as, and this is like a wild comparison, but same as Messi is opening doors in, in soccer, and people realize, “Oh, there’s this guy who’s, you know, amazing in soccer.” Now soccer is becoming this new thing, you know, all this talent in Latin America. The same happens across multiple areas of fields. And there’s engineering, and there’s, you know, and there’s recruiting, and there’s sales, and there’s the same talent or the same capacity that you’ll find in a soccer player, you’ll find in any other capacity, you’ll find in any other profession, not just in Argentina, of course. We’re, we’re talking, you know, region-wise. There’s, there’s this huge potential, there’s this vast talent pool of people who have been maturing as professionals in international environments, who are maybe today still working under a huge corporation or supplying or supporting a huge organization that are just ready. You know, they’re behind companies like Accenture and IBM, and, you know, these huge service providers who’ve been in the BPO business for a long, long time, who allowed for, you know, a lot of people to get the knowledge, but they’re, they’re doing it behind doors. So, you know, it, it just takes financing. It just takes someone who’s, who’s, you know, who’s, who’s got the courage to invest, as you did with Bally very successfully. It just takes, it just takes someone who’s, who’s, who’s got enough vision to be able to grab that talent. And I think there the combination that I’ve seen typically works is having a, you know, a sales team in the US or having a, a good business network in the US combined with a Latin America workforce. So selling in the US with a, with a group of people, engineers, or whatever, you know, recruiting, whatever it is in Latin America. So offering, having that, you know, initial interface with someone who’s, who’s US-born and local, but also, but who will enable these companies to all this talent that is outside of the US, you know.

Brian: When people think about nearshoring, usually software engineers come first. Recruiting RPO is close behind it. What else are you seeing that is either already being nearshored and nobody knows about it, or, or could be? You know, what, what are some other, other roles, so people can think big about this?

Max: Yeah, sure. I would say that over the last couple years, BPO has, has grown a lot, significantly in both in Central America, but also South America. I would say, you know, all of Latin America. And so it’s, you know, any, any jobs, I would say, any jobs that could be done from home, right? That would just require a good level of English, good use of tools, and experience that can be, can be like transferable to any location, you know, like assistants, I don’t know, accounting, finance, sales, marketing, all that stuff can be done from anywhere in, in the world, you know. So, there are some companies out there, like BPO companies that just specialize in one, one particular role. There are some others that are more generic, but I think all, I’ve seen all those jobs grow, and all those companies, like BPO companies, grow. There’s this opportunity to leverage this monetary exchange differences and, you know, as well as accessing a vast pool of candidates, like I said. So, so the, the options are, I would say, are unlimited, basically. It’s just finding the right niche and the right, the right company with the right culture to match them with, with the talent. But the talent is, is out there.

Brian: Yeah, absolutely. Max, a few fun questions as we start to wind down the show. So, obviously, English is a strong, is a strength of yours, but not your first language. Do you have any, any favorite English sayings or phrases or words that, that you’d like to share?

Max: Yeah, I’ve actually, I have actually tattooed one of them. I don’t know if you, you can see that. Underdog.

Brian: Yeah, yeah, tell, tell us about that.

Max: Yeah, it’s sort of my favorite, it’s one of my favorite words. And, you know, it’s, it’s funny because if you, as you learn the language, and you try to translate it, if you do, if you translate it literally, it’s not, it doesn’t, it doesn’t make any sense, right? But when you, you understand the meaning of it, it becomes very powerful. And I think it does relate very well with, with what we’re saying here is, Latin America is always the underdog when it comes to, you know, looking into maybe a location or thinking about, thinking about talent in certain areas, certain specific areas. And so it’s been my job, I’ve, I’ve taken this very personal, very personally and very seriously, to make it, to become the underdog and to show to a lot of these companies that, you know, what we, what we do has as much value as, as what can be done from any other region. And we’ve proven ourselves many, many, many, many times. So, yeah, that is, that is one of my favorite words, for sure, and it, it definitely reflects what, what we’re talking about here.

Brian: Love it. How about shopping? So someone travels to Argentina for their first time ever, non-food related, we’ll get into food in a second, but if they, if they’re visiting Argentina, what should they, what should they buy? What, what’s something interesting that they might find there that they wouldn’t find at home?

Max: For definitely an Argentine football, you know, soccer jersey. I’m not trying to get creative here. You know, you can, you can buy, we have this local beverage that some people know, which is called mate. Mate is just a drink similar to tea. So it’s tea leaves, like, crushed that you drink out of, like, a cup with a straw. Very particular flavors. So some people might find it interesting because it’s very local. I’m trying to get away from food because that’s what, like, wine, I would say, it’s like. But for when, when people come visit, I would say my, my first recommendation for them is think about what they like. There’s so much to do here. Like, you don’t, you like nightlife, or you like trekking, or you like, you know, I don’t know, fishing, or, or you like visiting different places. We’ve got the mountains, and we’ve got the sea, and we’ve got whatever. A lot of people come buy leather goods because we’ve got a vast agricultural tradition here. That’s what they do. But, you know, in terms of activities and things to do down in Argentina or Buenos Aires, it’s, it’s a vast, vast country. So a lot of things to be done. And each state, or as we call them provinces, have different traditions and different things to do and things to buy. So it really depends on what, what people like to do. Many things, many options, really.

Brian: Speaking of the outside provinces, outside of Buenos Aires, if someone traveled there, and they had like two extra days, they could visit any other province, which one would you recommend?

Max: I’d either go north or south. South, you’ve got the Patagonia, which is a worldwide known location for great sightseeing. Certain times of the year, whales come down here to mate. And so it’s, you know, a great, great sightseeing opportunity. And on the other side of the country, you’ve got the mountains, some of the biggest mountain ranges in the entire world. So, and, and, and beautiful, like, lakes surrounded by mountain ranges and forests. It just, it looks like a fairy tale. And then if you go towards the, the north, you have, you know, you’ve got forests. I’ve recently been to the Iguazu waterfalls, which is one of the seventh world, what’s it called, beauties, wonders of the world, right?

Brian: Wonders of the world.

Max: Thank you. So, and it was, it was amazing. It was just, it’s, it, it’s like a different country, you know. It’s close next to the border with Brazil. Surrounded by nature. So those, those are the two places that I would recommend to, to visit outside Buenos Aires. They’re breathtaking.

Brian: Good suggestions. And last question, my favorite topic is food. For someone visiting Argentina, and also even an opportunity if you wanted to recommend a restaurant, this, this is a great time to do it.

Max: Yeah. I was just recently looking at the lists of best restaurants in the world, and Argentina comes in, I think, first in Latin America, probably together with, with Mexico. They’ve got amazing food there as well. But Argentina has some, some of the best ones, like top 50, even, which is insane. Steakhouses, obviously, which we call here, we don’t call it steak in Argentina, it’s called asado, as you may know, which is different cuts of meat cooked on coal, right? So different ways of preparing the meat, very, like, traditional cuts of meat done in a certain way. So, and, you know, in Buenos Aires, where I live, you’ve got vast, vast, you know, restaurants and lots of different options. We also have the international food, like I said. We have great pizza and ice cream, and, you know, you have all this Italian and Spanish tradition as well. So some people say Argentine pizza is one of the best in the world as well. Maybe some people would disagree. But people say so. Pizza and ice cream are also part of our, you know, like food tradition too. But, yeah, I mean, steak, Argentine meat, Argentine wines. First thing, you’ve got to try dulce de leche. Everyone’s blown away by it. And then, and then all these other foods, like pizza and pasta, you know, all the, all the Italian food or something to, to try. Amazing.

Brian: Max, this has been a blast. It’s great to see you again, my friend. Let me just give a thanks to our sponsor once more. That’s Plug Technologies, Plug.tech, great way to find software developers all over Latin America for US companies. Max, thanks so much for being a guest today. It was a pleasure. All right, until next time, we’ll see you on the Nearshore Cafe podcast. Take care, everybody. Thanks for joining us at the Nearshore Cafe podcast. Tune in next week for a new episode featuring another special guest with exciting stories.